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Comments 57

21. Doug wrote:

    Dr. Warren,

    You have to find some groups that will stand and fight legally on this with you in both the church and secular realms – this is like that old movie based on a true story where the guy attacked the woman in the street os New York at night and she screamed and pounded on door to door and everyone was afraid to let her in and eventually he killed her. You are the first, but there will be MANY more after you if we don’t stand up as a GROUP against this storm trooper tactics -I would donate money today if I had a place to do it.

    There is a poem by a minister written after WWII in Germany when he was asked why they didn’t do anything about Hitler – I just found it on Wikipedia, here it is and the link to it’s history since then:

    “In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
    And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
    And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
    And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

    Posted 21 Nov 2008 at 9:03 pm ¶
22. Nick Lansley wrote:

    I agree with Doug about the sentiments of the poem he quoted.

    As you can imagine, Hitler went after homosexuals fairly early on – you can imagine the quote “And then they came for the homosexuals, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a homosexual”.

    As you can see from some of the nastier posts on this blog, they are still after us, threatening us, condemning us, and of course threatening you now.

    At least you spoke up for us by accommodating gay couples in your counseling service, and for that you have our heartfelt thanks.

    If there is anything the gay community can do for you in return, let us know.

    Posted 22 Nov 2008 at 6:08 am ¶
23. Doug wrote:

    Nick – if you really mean what you said about letting you know what the gay community can do for me, I will tell you. I am all for any human being- regardless of sexuality – to be in a loving monogamous relationship. But to force a business to create a product it doesn’t want to offer by a “civil rights” lawsuit is so wrong on every level that I don’t even know where to begin. There is every probability that eHarmony will go out of business from this. Please stand up and say that this is NOT the way to get an eHarmony style dating site for your community, the way this was done is shameful and just utterly wrong.

    Posted 22 Nov 2008 at 9:14 am ¶
24. anonymous wrote:

    Mr, Warren,

    Why can’t the homosexual community just leave everyone alone? I will pray for you.

    Posted 22 Nov 2008 at 9:51 am ¶
25. Nick Lansley wrote:

    Hi Doug,

    If I have understood eHarmony’s marketing correctly, they are not so much a dating agency as a marriage counseling agency.

    Here in the UK we have a state marriage counseling agency that works to restore happiness to all married couples, straight or gay, who come for help.

    In the USA no such agency exists on behalf of the state, however socialist your government’s policies have become recently.

    eHarmony is regarded as a best-of-breed counseling agency with many success stories, so it was not surprising that gay couples felt excluded (see my earlier post, entry No.14 above).

    You are right that gay dating services should also offer services for straight couples and this case-law may have actually caused that to happen!

    Can we have fairness for all those couples in love who seek help, whether heterosexual or homosexual? Yes We Can!

    Posted 22 Nov 2008 at 9:58 am ¶
26. Nick Lansley wrote:

    Hi anonymous(24), the homosexual community would leave well alone if it wasn’t being so victimised evry day (California’s Prop 8 is agood example).

    We WANT to be left alone but are prepared to fight those who try and take our rights way (prop 8 ) and/or promote unfairness and difference (this court result).

    Stop meddling in our lives / condemning our lifestyle / generally being nasty to us and we’ll be as quiet as mouse!

    Nick

    Posted 22 Nov 2008 at 10:11 am ¶
27. Vickie Foster wrote:

    So very disappointed that you have lowered your standard of godliness for worldly gain. Surely there has been enough profit collected so far that you could have afforded to disbnand the company before choosing to cave in to demands that dishonor our Creator. Yes, obviously, many good people would have lost their jobs over your company’s closing its doors, but it was the Lord who provided the blessing in the first place and He has the power to bless and provide in new ways. Such a creative, compassionate, and intelligent person as your founder could have come up with a better solution. Woe unto any man who decisively dishonors God!

    Posted 23 Nov 2008 at 1:19 pm ¶
28. Nick Lansley wrote:

    Vickie, honey, God doesn’t exist – he’s just a made up excuse for people who have control over you.

    eHarmony embraces all now who eek their help (gay couples and straight couples), so quit excusing people who give hate a chance and embrace all of humanity with the love you currently have for Jesus – better worldly love than hate-inducing fantasy.

    Nick

    Posted 23 Nov 2008 at 1:25 pm ¶
29. Dan wrote:

    There must be another way, Dr. Warren, than to cave in to this extortion by the gay lobby. Could not this have been taken to the Supreme Court? This capitulation will have devastating effects on your business – in the long run, it would have been better to have closed the company and reopened under a religious umbrella for protection from those who would impose this evil on you and your company.

    Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 11:44 am ¶
30. David wrote:

    I wonder if I go to a gay website and sue cause they don’t offer hetrosexual dating will work.

    Any one game.

    Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:44 pm ¶
31. Nick Lansley wrote:

    David, eHarmony is a relationship counseling site rather than a dating site, that refused to counsel gay couples (not even married gay couples).

    But I’d like to see you even use your computer to go to a gay dating site. You might even enjoy your new date-mate!

    Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 11:55 pm ¶
32. Nick Lansley wrote:

    Dan, like Vickie, do you too want to destroy a business just because it is now operating fairly.

    Honestly, I don’t have to go far to witness Christian evil, I just monitor this blog!

    Nick

    Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 11:56 pm ¶
33. Doug wrote:

    Nick, as you well know from being on this blog,I get a copy of everything that you write here as you do what I write. I have to ask you -since you seem like an intelligent guy -what do you define “Christian evil” as? is it the millions – or maybe billions -of dollars that it pours into fighting poverty and disease and illiteracy in pretty much ever country on the globe -and you know full well that any simple hits on Goggle for “christian charity” would bring hits in the millions, right?

    So I would guess it’s because you think that Christians hate you, which I will tell you from first hand experience, nothing could be further from the truth. It is true that we opposed Prop 8 in California, but it wasn’t because we didn’t want gay couples to not be in happy monogamous relationships. It was because we saw from past experience (see what has happened in Massachusetts, etc. after they passed this – and please do a regular Goggle on something like “same sex marriage MA education” rather than just go to CNN etc. when you do) that passing same sex marriage into law in a state meant presenting homosexual education to children as young as kindergarden – and you don’t think that children of that age need to be thinking about sex, do you?

    Even Elton John has said in the press (once again, found in a simple Google search) that gay couples don’t need anything other than existing domestic partnership licenses to get the same rights heterosexual couples do in a marriage -believe me, we really wouldn’t care if you called it “marriage”if it didn’t carry with it legal rights that start a chain reaction of other things like loss of tax exempt status if a church doesn’t preform a gay marriage. And like I said before – the way Christianity gives SO MUCH money around the world to charities (mine gives at least 80% of all the money that comes in the door away) is to not have to pay taxes on that – and I think you WANT that money to go out, right? So just know, Prop 8 was NOT about some “I hate gay people thing”at all.

    Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 12:41 am ¶
34. Nick Lansley wrote:

    Hello Doug,

    Well first of all thanks for your response.

    Of course I should define ‘Christian evil’:

    I define it as “Words said or deeds conducted, in the name of either the Christian faith or its deities, that undermines (or attempts to undermine) the human rights or comparitive fairness of other lawfully existing minority groups.

    Such acts include the stating of words that make fellow believers feel negatively towards that group, or make rules that negatively affect (directly or indirectly) or discriminate against their family members, employees, or colleagues who are members of that group

    The basis for ‘evil’ is that Christian faith is based on the unconditional and non-judgemental love of all human beings by Jesus Christ, so giving permission to condone or conduct acts that undermine the rights and happiness of other lawful groups just because they do not fit in with the ethos or belief of that faith is a paradox.”

    Of course there are many Christian charities (as there are secular) doing great works, although I would extend ‘evil’ if those works include proselytizing. I am concinced that religious (mainly but not just Christian) crusades have vandalised many cultures around the world, and I wonder if, for example, Christian charities improving literacy are forcing people to do so by reading the Bible?

    Here we are working with a Christian charity to provide toys and games for kids so that their parents don’t have to get into more debt at Christmas time. However this charity also has a habit of including christian tracts (and even Gideon New testaments) in with the toys and games so they have had to sign a written undertaking not to do so with our gifts.

    Let’s be clear – secular charities bring in at least as much money and do so without any hidden agendas, but I respect and thank all Christian charities for the hard work they do (and Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, Hindu…).

    I am so surprised that Christians wonder why gay people think they are hated by Christians. After Prop 8 passed, which took away a right, you can see why so many gay people think Christians hate us. The direction of anger at the Mormon church is because the church paid $20m toward the Yes on 8 campaign, by far the single biggest contibutor. Most churches got involved with Yes on 8 and your Google search reveals much campaigning from the pulpit saying homosexuality is immoral and evil. Look there and you’ll see the source of hate.

    I had one contributor to my Youtube videos who talked of several thousand Christians coming together in a sports stadium to love us (indeed to ‘weep and wail’ their love for us). They then went to the polling booths and voted to take away our right to marry! DUH! I asked her how she felt the gay community felt about this; patronized? Offended? Hated? Alas to that question she has refused to answer.

    You quote Elton John. I see! Do you think he speaks for all of us? Let’s get an equivalent heterosexual rock star. Does Bruce Springsteen speak for you? Maybe Prince does? or a Hollywood celebrity? Honestly, do you think all gay people are the same? Gay people make up about 6% of planetary humanity – that’s 360 million people!

    You say that if Prop 8 had not passed, it would cause a raection that might end up with churches losing tax exemptin for refusing to marry gay couples. What rubbish! Churches can refuse to marry ANYONE that they don’t deem suitable. That’s up to the church! Churches refuse to marry some straight couples without affecting their status; that wouldn’t change. Don’t believe what the Yes on 8 propaganda lies told you!

    So why is same-sex marriage important? Gay couples want to be on the same bus as you – and not be ‘forced to the back’ with second-class civil partnerships that can allow the most evil of Christian employers to find an excuse to with draw employee rights afford to married couples “because it’s not marriage”.

    Finally you say “So just know, Prop 8 was NOT about some “I hate gay people thing”at all.”.

    I have seen nothing that makes gay people think it was anything other than hate because we could see the tax issue wasn’t going to a problem. You took away someone else’s right – that is a definition of Hate (just so YOU know!).

    Let’s hope tha US constitution can withstand the Yes on 8 vote, hopefully the vote will be overturned soon. You may not wish it, but the USA needs to become The Land of the Free once again and I for one will be working hard to make that happen.

    Cheers
    Nick

    Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 6:33 am ¶
35. dhs wrote:

    Doug, go to first baptist church dallas and take his advise on “being gay is not ok” november 2008 sermon.

    Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 8:14 pm ¶
36. dhs wrote:

    dr warren please, go listen to dr robert jeffress at firstdallas.org november 09 08 sermon dhs

    Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 11:40 pm ¶
37. Chris wrote:

    Dear Neil Clark Warren and eHarmony

    You have shown yourself to be a true coward. You have more sense in your pocket than in your head. If you were truly a born again Christian you would have sold out all for the pearl of great price. Riding on the credentials of morality and biblical integrity is only as good as active obedience to the Word of God. You have proven to be an enemy of my personal Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; as you have to others, who, legitamately desire righteousness in the earth. You have failed the test of your faith. A man whom the Lord has raised up to your position of prestige and prominence has abused his authority and set back the Kingdom of Christ.

    Repent of your sin and make it right before the window of ooportunity closes.

    Posted 27 Nov 2008 at 11:32 am ¶
38. Chris wrote:

    Dear Neil Clark Warren and eHarmony

    You have shown yourself to be a true coward. You have more sense in your pocket than in your head. If you were truly a born again Christian you would have sold out all for the pearl of great price. Riding on the credentials of morality and biblical integrity is only as good as active obedience to the Word of God. You have proven to be an enemy of my personal Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; as you have to others, who, legitamately desire righteousness in the earth. You have failed the test of your faith. A man whom the Lord has raised up to your position of prestige and prominence has abused his authority and set back the Kingdom of Christ.

    Repent of your sin and make it right before the window of opportunity closes.

    Posted 27 Nov 2008 at 11:33 am ¶
39. dd wrote:

    It is pathetic that I have to have the immoral agenda of the gay community shoved down my throat under the guise of equal rights. Romans 1 clearly states how this should be percieved. Sad that our country had disolved from one built on freedom of religion to persecution. But then fail to uphold the rights of the helpless unborn. Churches ARE being sued also for refusing to marry gays. In that light it becomes obvious that the gay community is only tolerant of itself. If you see YOU have a need or want these things BUILD THEM YOURSELVES!! Don’t sue people who are non supportive to provide your needs. When the law upholds your agenda you take away OUR rights and fail to recognize that. As for those who do not believe in God: well….you don’t have to believe in gravity either, it doesn’t negate the reality of it.

    Posted 29 Nov 2008 at 5:35 am ¶
40. Nick Lansley wrote:

    dd: Honestly, the breathtaking narrowmlndness and arrogance of Christians appearing in this blog is truly astonishing and certainly worthy of being the subject of my next YouTube video!

    First of all, gravity can be proved using the scientific method. You don’t have to ‘believe’ or ‘not believe’ in gravity. It is proven in evidence-based scientific methodology.

    Apply the same methodology to god and he disappears into myth alongside other but non-existant characters such as Harry Potter.

    Let’s talk persecution: yes Christians have been very good at practicing persecution over the last 2000 years. It wasn’t so long ago that they put non-believers to death along side those who practiced different variants of Christianity.

    You wouldn’t even let people of different races to marry until a few short decades ago.

    So now gay people persecuted by Christians for so longer are fighting back and getting in your face. Get used to it! Until we get fairness in the Land of the Free will fight your dark narrow-mindedness with every sinew. If we are barred, we sue; if we are discriminated against, we overcome, and where we are vilified we show up the accuser for the desperate sad fools that you are.

    And we are going to shove our agenda of fairness, equal rights, and non-discrimination down your throats until you either see sense or you choke! And there’s nothing you can do about it accept close your eyes, plug your eyes, and shout ‘la-la-la!’ into the wind as it sweeps you away.

    (Blimey that last paragraph was poetic, I’ll re-use that! You see what a passion for good can create?!).

    Show me here evidence of a single church successfully sued for not allowing gay marriage. You have all of the internet: go ahead and locate the legal or news item.

    The state is being sued but not churches – after all secular marriage is what loving gay couples are looking for. Why would anyone go to a ‘hostile’ church?

    Can we have many more places in the world serving up true loving gay marriages in the next decade? YES WE CAN!

    Posted 29 Nov 2008 at 6:12 am ¶

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